Joe Grimm's News Jobs Café: Ask the recruiter

Applying for a Job In-House?

Q: Recently, a new job opening came open in my department for a position that -- on first glance -- seemed intriguing. It was new and a chance to get in the ground floor of something. So, I did the internal application and prepared for my interview.

When I got there, I knew it wasn't for me. The pay was low, the office didn't have the energy I wanted and the job wasn't quite what I expected. A short bit after that interview, another position opened up in my department, one that I'm again interested in.

My question is this: How do I approach my boss again to sign another internal application? I like my current job, I'm just not sure I'm going to grow anymore in it. The hours are horrible, but I learned to deal with that a long time ago. I just believe this may be a good way to grow as a journalist.

Thank you for any advice you can give me.

Internal Candidates

A: Applying for internal opportunities reminds our editors about us and our interests. It can get us into interviews where we talk about big issues like mission and vision. But applying too frequently can make us look dissatisfied and directionless. It can even hurt our credibility. You don't want editors saying, "Well, of course he applied. He applies for everything."

Before you apply for a new job, think about where you're going. What kind of job will this new job lead to? Does it take you in the direction you want? If it does, do your homework. Talk to people about the work, the wages, the hours, the benefits and the burdens.

In many cases, you can ask questions about a position without making a formal application. Be crystal clear. Some editors will confuse an expression of curiosity with one of genuine interest. Tell them you're not applying, but have some questions. If the answers add up, then you can apply.

On this job, sound out your boss and other workers on what the job is like. No surprises this time. If it sounds good, then explore the subject of what your chances would be for getting it. If it looks good, go for it. And good luck. If you don't get it, you should wait a while before I tried a third.

Why Did Recruiter Lose Interest?

Q: I and my journalist friends are often puzzled by the behavior of editors -- generally, of course -- but in this case, specifically during the courtship phase of the hiring process.

Why is it that encouraging, flattering talks with editors and recruiters that start off so well can suddenly come to a dead halt? E-mails are left unanswered; phone calls unreturned. Weeks and months go by in total silence. Are they just not that into us? What happened?

Sincerely,

Lonely on Metro

A: Ah, the fickleness of it all!

Although it may not seem so, this is a two-part question. The first part has to do with how does one go from hot to not. The second part is all about why doesn't anyone tell me?

Many behind-the-scenes circumstances can cool off what had appeared to be a hot opening.

A hiring freeze, for example, can chill things off.

The application of a seemingly better candidate can, too.

Sometimes we see an internal candidate, applying late, snatch away the opening.

And there can be a botched handoff where one person starts the process and then hands it to another who is not so attentive.

We can give a hundred other reasons, but they all lead to one question: So why don't the editors simply pick up the phone?

Again, there is another multitude of possibilities.

Although you might doubt this, editors don't like to deliver bad news any more than normal people do. So, we drag our feet.

Sometimes, the situation gets bogged down -- say, with the appearance of additional candidates -- and we wait for things to play out. The first candidate to be considered for a job will have to wait a lot longer than the last one considered for their answer.

Of course, there are instances where editors are just inconsiderate and don't think or care about how much this means to the candidate. One person told me, "I interviewed with them and never heard from them again. I gues I didn't get the job."

So that's what happens. What can you do about it? The calls and e-mails -- to more than one person -- should shake loose an answer. But you're left wondering and worrying about how often to call.

Note: "Ask the Recruiter" has moved to Poynter's new Career Center. The new home is here. Remember to change your bookmark.

Is a Second Application Worth it?

Q: If I've applied to a paper before, and either got a form rejection or no reaction, is it wise to approach the same paper again for a job opening, particularly if the same people are in place?

The cynic in me says if they didn't flip the first time around, so what makes me think they had a change in heart now.

On the other hand ...

Bill

A: Because we don't know why your previous application didn't lead to a job, I would try again.

Here are half a dozen of the reasons why you might be a good candidate this time, even though they took a pass on you previously:

 

• A different, more suitable position is open.
• The first time around, the opening evaporated or got frozen, and no one at all was hired.
• You've grown.
• The job went to a better candidate and no such competition has applied this time.
• Your application fell through a crack.
• The job requirements have changed (more online experience, increased need for a foreign language) that play to you and make you much more competitive.

Of course, this is all guesswork. I think I'd call the hiring editor for this position and ask what they are looking for. I would not mention that you have been rejected before.

Note: "Ask the Recruiter" has moved to Poynter's new Career Center. The new home is here. Remember to change your bookmark.

What if My Best Reference Left?

Q: I’m getting ready to leave the newspaper I’m working for now, and I have a question about references.

This is my first job out of college and I’ve been here about two and a half years. I still list the editor who coordinated my internship four years ago, as well as my college media adviser (I was the editor of the student paper) and a professor who had me in a number of classes and also coordinated an international summer program I participated in.

I also list my former editor from my current job. He left for a different newspaper about two months ago, but I still feel like he’s the guy from this newspaper who knows me and my skills best. Should I list someone else who’s still at this newspaper in addition to (or instead of) the former editor who has since left?

There are other people here who I could list, but I don’t think they’d be as good as the guy who’s gone. I get along with my immediate editor, but I wonder how she’d come across in a reference call. She’s not an enthusiastic person in general. So she wouldn’t have anything bad to say, but I’m not sure she’d wow someone who called her, either.

There’s a fellow reporter who’s sort of a newsroom mentor who I could use as well. Does it look strange to have no references from my current employer? Should I add someone to solve that problem? Also, should I drop some of the college and previous internship references? Are they out of date?

Thanks for your help on this. Your column is my new favorite feature on poynter.org.

Ready to Move

A: Use your former editor, with his consent, of course. He sounds like a strong reference for your recent career and that should be acceptable to anyone. Be ready to serve up another name if someone asks, but reserve it for then.

You are so right to evaluate potential references on their ability to give a good reference. I see nothing wrong with using the newsroom mentor as a secondary reference, as it sounds like he has some experience and credibility.

Those college advisers? Pare them to one now, preferring the one who knows the most about what has happened with you since you left college.

Long-term references can be helpful -- but only if they have been in a position to follow your career growth.

Note: "Ask the Recruiter" has moved to Poynter's new Career Center. The new home is here. Remember to change your bookmark.

Is Required Experience a Minimum?

Q: When a newspaper advertises that it wants someone with 3-5 years experience and I have more than that, does that mean I won't be considered?

Steve

A: That generally is a minumum.

For some jobs, however, newspapers may for budget reasons want to hire a less-experienced person.

In almost all cases, the right candidate can get the job even though he or she has a different amount of experience than the ad states.

Note: "Ask the Recruiter" is moving to Poynter's new Career Center. The new home is here. Don't forget to change your bookmark.

The Minimum-Experience Blues?

Q: Let me join the others who have thanked you for this valuable resource. I am a young journalist who just graduated from a top college having worked at the excellent student newspaper there for four years and completed an internship at a well-regarded 200,000 circ. paper. I've been told by many editors and respectable journalists that I'm talented and should be able to land a job at a mid-sized paper.

But in my job search, many mid-sized newspapers I looked at (I'm talking 100,000, plus or minus 25,000) say they require 3-5 years of experience at a professional newspaper. Indeed, in several follow-up calls, editors couldn't look past my resume to see if my clips show that I have what it takes to succeed at their paper now. This seems to me to be a problem with many of our best newspapers -- newsrooms are filled with baby boomers and lack talented young journalists to help them better connect with my generation. I realize that experience is valuable, but shouldn't editors be judging talent and not assigning arbitrary length-of-time requirements to their reporting openings? Is this a function of cutbacks in the industry as a whole?

Sam

A: I'm with you 100 percent.

A couple of things may be going on here. One may be that overworked editors are setting up some minimal hurdles that help them deal with applications. This can be their way of dealing with a flood of application. After all, length of experience is the easiest thing to measure, it indicates that some of that earl-career training may have already happened and and it is a first indicator that references will be positive. A person with little track record is comparatively less tested and will not have such detailed references.

The other thing to consider is whether these more experienced people are just better. In your case, for example, I'd expect that you will keep growing and that you'll be even better in three years than you are right now. Some of the people these editors seem to favor may have been -- three years ago -- exactly where you are now. They've just grown.

(Think of the people now facing buyouts as newspapers try to hire less experienced, cheaper people. They feel cheated, like you, when someone less experienced gets the job. This knife cuts both ways.)

Professors and mentors don't lie when they say you can work at a large newspaper. They are honestly impressed by your work and they know you. But editors are not looking simply for someone who can make it. They try to find the people who will do best.

You're going to have to find ways to break through the minimum-service rule. One way is to meet some of these editors at their papers, at conferences, seminars and the like. Another is to go after journalistic specialties where there is less competition. And, of course, you could always go to work at a good-quality smaller daily they compete with and kick their butts.

Note: "Ask the Recruiter" is moving to Poynter's new Career Center. The new home is here. Don't forget to change your bookmark.

Does Anyone Answer the Mail?

Q: Not only am I a recent J-school grad, I also have a prior liberal arts degree, one year on the copy desk of a mid-sized daily and was a reporting intern this summer for a weekly in Washington, D.C. Still, the closest I’ve come to an interview is a letter of rejection thanking me for my efforts but passing because of my inexperience.

I agree that I need more experience, but how can I gain it if no editor is willing to take a chance? Perhaps my cover letter just sucks or maybe my clips are dull, I don’t know. Seemingly, I never will because no one ever returns my e-mails, not even to say I should go back into sales.

Any advice (or commiseration) would help me greatly.

Patrick

A: You have my commiseration -- and lots of company.

Of course people can get hired with less than five years of experience. That's how we all started. My guess is that you'll need to apply to smaller or more remote places.

As for the feedback, you'll get very little from editors unless they are seriously interested in helping you get to your paper -- and if they have time -- which they seem to have less and less of. An editor could spend hours a day critiquing applications -- and some job-seekers respond with a nasty e-mail. So, busy editors learn to refrain.

I'd go back to a former professor or employer -- someone who knows you and wants to see you succeed -- and ask for a critique. Then, I would recalibrate my job search based on your responses (or lack of them) to date and the advice of your mentors.

Note: "Ask the Recruiter" is moving to Poynter's new Career Center. The new home is here. Don't forget to change your bookmark.

When to Explain I Quit My Old Job?

Q: How do I handle this?

Several weeks ago, I quit a reporter's job on a small weekly. I was the only reporter with a too-large beat. I worked for about a year. The longer I worked the more knowledgeable I became on the communities I covered, and spread myself even thinner. I worked hard, developed my skills and got a wealth of experience. I know I did it well because my sources told me so. The editor at the paper was no help to me. In hindsight, I could have handled him better, but the fact is, I didn't.

Thank you!

Michele

A: You worked too hard to get into journalism to now be afraid to even send out an application.

The sooner you do it, the better, as your employment gap is growing.

Do not bother to explain in the cover letter why you quit. That won't really help you. Simply note your employment dates on your resume. Write a positive, powerful cover letter and ask for an interview. The interview, not the cover letter or the resume, is the place for explaining your reasons for quitting.

Keep the in-person explanation brief and not too critical. Take the high road. Try to direct the interview toward the future. A candidate who gets mired in a lengthy explanation of why an old job or boss didn't work out is going to have a hard time getting any traction.

 

Note: "Ask the Recruiter" is moving to Poynter's new Career Center. The new home is here. Don't forget to change your bookmark.

No Experience or Too Much Experience?

Q: When I first started in journalism, no one wanted to hire me because I didn't have experience. Now I have six years experience at a small daily and am trying to move on but employers at bigger dailies now tell me they would rather hire someone a year or two out of college  less pay. It's like I am being punished now for my experience. How does one deal with this?

Jeff

A: You are not alone. There is no choice but to keep looking, trying to find a match between your experience and a good job. These mismatches are not rare and are certainly not your fault.

The employers who are turning you away for less experienced people who they can hire for less might well be interested in you for other openings where they will need -- and are willing to pay for – more experience.

Fooling the Drug Test?

Business and Legal Reports might remind one of Spy vs. Spy as it outlines the strategies that some job-seekers use to foll the drug test -- and the counter-strategies that human resources people can use to uncover the deception.

The most unusual dodge is "unique prosthetic devices," which employers counter by checking pockets and testing to make sure that the sample is, indeed, human urine.

When to give references?

Q: From what you wrote you indicate that I should supply references on request.

I remember in college that was a big no-no but that has recently been a debate in my office.

I understand that the world of journalism is very small but I was always told you don't want to make an editor do extra work. I'm just not sure what to do now.

I'm not concerned about anyone giving me a bad reference but I'm worried the paper might find out I'm looking. If a potential paper called an editor here for a reference and I didn't get the job I'd likely be sent to another bureau.

 

Thanks for clearing this up for me.

-- S

A: you are acting sensibly if you hold off on supplying references until you have a serious shot at somethings.

Editors should not call references -- listed or not -- until they get serious and have told the job-seeker they are going to do that.

There are lots of reasons for that:

• Editors shouldn't put recruits into jeopardy needlessly.
  
• It is unwise to trigger a counter-offer prematurely.
  
• Better reference checks can be done after the candidate has been interviewed.
  

Refusing to give references?

Q: I work for a newspaper company that does not permit editors to be used as references. I know some editors in the past who would but they have now left the paper and I continue to use them as my references.

How common is that and what should I do? How bad does it look on a résumé to not have any current editors listed as references? Could it be one reason why I've tried for six months without as much as a bite?

Confused

A: This is very common. No one will be surprised by editors who adhere to a policy that restricts them from saying anything other than confirming dates of employment. I do not, however, think that this is the reason you're not getting any bites.

Editors usually don't get serious about asking for references until they've at least talked with you. It sounds like you're not getting that far.

Ways you can get around the reference issue:

• Provide a copy of your latest appraisal
  
• Ask for a generic letter of recommendation
  
• Offer to sign a release promising not to go after the paper if someone gives a bad reference.
  

Actually, the editors you apply to should have experience getting other editors to skirt the policy and give some indications.

Why can't I get a magazine job?

Q: I hope my request for advice isn't repetitive, as I've checked out Ask the Recruiter before and you seem to be a very busy guy!

I will try to keep this brief and reflecting as little desperation as possible.

My college graduation was three years ago.  In that time, I have worked as an editorial assistant at the Associated Press New York City headquarters, written internationally published articles on oil prices and the automotive industry, fact-checked and written for national and local magazines and served three magazine internships.   In my spare time, I have explored the world of literary journals and published poems and essays in some fairly reputable books.

So why is it that now I can't seem to find a job in magazines?  Perhaps because of the competition, perhaps because my resume is largely business journalism-oriented.

I don't know the real answer.  But I am getting tired of trying to figure it out.  Is it time to give up on New York media and switch over to newspapers?

Thank you so much for your time and attention.

Laura

A: This weakness may be your greatest strength.

I would pitch myself as a  business writer and apply to both newspapers and trade publications. Include some small ones in the mix in case you have been applying to magazines where you're just being overshadowed by the competition.

Business journalists are in greater demand than generalists or feature writers.

 

Journalism awards?

Q: I recently won a bunch of awards in the state AP contest. I don't generally put a lot of stock in these things -- they often seem random. But I contributed to half a dozen winning entries, which everyone seems to think is impressive. I've also been trying to move on from the small daily where I work. My question: what is the best way to tell potential employers about these awards, or is it even worth mentioning?

Ink-stained but honored

A: Congratulations! Awards are worth mentioning, but your attitude is right.

Lead with the project, not with the prize.

All editors know that some great work goes unrecognized (typically their own!) and that some winners are, well, good, but ... there can be politics.

You can mention this in your cover letter or on the resume.

Wrong way: "I have just won ... "

Right way: My stories on growth and development keyed on the effects on children and were recognized ...

Essentially, hundreds of journalism prizes are awarded each year in every state, so many of them start to sound less special. But a good job of reporting or storytelling -- that stands out!

Craigslist for a job?

Q: Would you reccomend putting out a classified ad in Craigslist or E&P stating that I'm a journalist looking for work, or would that be counterproductive?

Brian

A: E&P might work.

Editors, who are already grumpy about the loss of classified advertising to Craiglist,  are just catching on to looking there for used refrigerators. We are not going to look there for journalists.

Desired experience?

Q: I'm a copy editor with two years at a metropolitan daily newspaper under my belt.

I started this right out of college. As an undergrad, I had assorted reporting internships/gigs. I'm trying to find a copy editing job elsewhere, but feel that I'm running into a wall. Many listings mention a requirement of design experience and/or three years' editing experience. I have no design experience yet, but I'm very willing to learn! (And I also did some dabbling with programs such as Quark, Pagemaker, etc.)

Is three really the magic number, or do you think these recruiters are willing to give some wiggle room when it comes to my experience? Same with the design deal -- do you think my enthusiasm or interest would be enough, in some cases, to compensate for my lack of pagination experience?

Thank you so much for keeping up this informative blog for clueless people like me!

All the best,

Need2Leave

A: Don't be put off by the three-year requirement. Most editors will cave on that if they run into an excellent candidate or are having trouble turning up someone.

If you started at a metro, you must be pretty good, and editors almost always have trouble finding copy editors.

The chief hurdle could be that design experience.

With all that in mind, start applying and try to get some shifts or a cross-train on your newspaper's design desk. You'll get there.

Responses to application?

Q: How long does it take for most journalism organizations to respond to job applications? ( I.e., how long before I should give up hope?) I've been applying for jobs for the past three weeks and I haven't gotten so much as a nibble from about 25 applications, despite having a job with a web site that has a million viewers and a master's degree in journalism.

Brian

A: Newspapers respond more rapidly if they are actively trying to fill a position. Even in that case, a three-week delay is not unusual. It may be too late to expect answers, but it is not too early to make follow-up calls.

Fake job postings?

Q: I applied earlier this year for the photojournalist intern position at the Free Press. Sadly, I had apparently missed the cut-off for application acceptance and my portfolio was ultimately mailed backed to me. You had however, retained the document portions of the packet. I am still extremely interested in this opportunity -- and would be more than happy to reapply if necessary. I noticed that you have re-listed on a website and just wanted to touch bases with you to restate my interests.

Thank you for your consideration,

Frank

A: Sorry, Frank.

Someone is playing games – probably at that posting service.

We have not reopened that position, though you are the second person I have heard from today who has received word from that service that we have an opening. We don’t.

Some services sites scavenge for postings and then repost them to look like they have content. Our ads routinely get posted in places other than where we put them. The problem is that they are sometimes posted after the jobs have been filled or stay up after we have taken them down. This place appears to have found our routine internship posting, stripped off the deadline date and posted it.

Recruiters don't have time to search for unauthorized postings and to then ask the site owners to take them down. I'm sorry they raised your hopes and wasted your time. Your best strategy is to dash off an e-mail as you have or to check an individual company’s own site.

Will typo in e-mail doom me?

Q: I recently submitted my portfolio to an editor at a local paper for review.

I made a stupid typo (word misspelled)  in a follow up e-mail to the editor. The e-mail was to verify that he had gotten my portfolio in the mail. Am I screwed?

Mad at myself,

Trish in Michigan

A: You might be.

Try this: Send a follow-up note that, with a sense of humor,  acknowledge the mistake. At least then he'll know that you realize you goofed. Ask him to let you come in for a visit to show him that you're a better journalist than that e-mail might indicate.

Job appraisal in job application?

Q: I have been working for a three-day-a-week newspaper for the past nine months, and in that time I have been evaluated by my managing editor twice (once after my three-month probation period, then again when the entire staff was given their yearly evaluations).

Both evaluations are very complimentary and say that I have been an exemplary employee.

My question is: Would it be considered tacky or unprofessional to send copies of these evaluations along with my clips and resume when I am applying for other jobs?

I know that employers don't have the time to go through an entire scrapbook, but if taken the right way, I think these evaluations could give me a leg up on other applicants.

Thanks,

Mike

A: Not tacky at all. In fact, this can be a great strategy in cases when employers have a policy that prevents them from giving references.

Has anyone else had tried this?

Too soon to apply?

Q:     I'm a reporter for a small daily. I've been here about 18 months after graduating college. At the end of the summer, I will move with my now-fiancee, but by then wife to the east coast, so she can attend graduate school.

We've arranged to live in a campus-owned apartment, which means low rent (especially good considering the high cost of living in the area.) The downside, however is that even though I get married in July, housing won't be available until the end of August/beginning of September. When should I start sending out my résum&eeacute;? Will I be overlooked if I send it too early and cannot start until September?

Engaged

A: To avoid putting a delay on a potential employer, wait until six weeks before you can start work. It will take a month for the new paper to get you in, interview and make an offer, then you'll be expected to give your employer a two-week notice.

It sounds as though you can spend your honeymoon applying.

Too much work to land a job?

Q: Last year, I applied for reporting job at a daily newspaper. I thought my qualifications were good and my clips were very good, too. The only thing was that I was not a full-time reporter at the time, I was freelancing for a very large and respected newspaper.

This seemed to bother one editor in particular. He questioned me for two hours on my work, my work ethic, how much I was paid each story and then a week later requested I write a proposal on how, if hired, I would approach the job. They also wanted five story ideas. I felt uncomfortable about it because I knew he wasn't asking other candidates and since I freelance, my time literally is money.

I weighed the pros and cons and then turned in a very nice report on how I would do the job, complete with five thoughtful and thoroughly researched story ideas. It took about a day of work, which I would have spent working on a story that I was going to be paid for. Two weeks later, after hearing nothing, I called to see what's going on. They report they're still looking at candidates.

I contacted the primary editor, who changed jobs recently, to ask what I could have done to improve my interviewing style, and the editor told me that I did well in the interview, I had strong clips but they went with someone else. He seemed to imply that it wasn't his decision. He said if I was interested in the job, I should apply again. (Of course, that could all be hogwash.)

My immediate thought was, "No way." I felt annoyed that they blatantly disregarded my time, made a poor hiring choice and then expected me to subject myself to further treatment. Instead, I was very gracious and positive and said that I had a lot of work that would make working full-time difficult (which is true.)

I have to say this negative experience, along with a few others (such as employers wanting me to come into an interview with 24-48 hours notice, completing lengthy editing/writing assignments, etc. and then still not hiring me) has made me extremely reluctant to do anything like it again. In fact, I won't.

Taking editing/writing tests during the interview is one thing, but anything extracurricular I think is unfair.

One person I know who is a newspaper editor said I was overreacting.

Should I ever apply to this place again? And secondly, how far should one go for a job? I think that if someone treats you a certain way, chances are they will treat you the same way when you are employed by them.

Thanks!

Cynical but Hopeful

A: It sounds as though you've soured on this place. It may be that you no longer want to work there as much as you once did.

I agree that the work they asked you to do was on the high end for newspaper applications. I especially wonder about requiring one candidate to do work that others were not asked to do.

By that same token of consistency, I would not give a free-lancer less to do because their time is money. Everyone's time has value. Non-freelancers who apply would have to carve that time out of time evenings and weekends.

It is ironic -- and not unexpected -- that the preferred candidate did not last!

Best way to send digital clips?

Q: Some job postings ask for electronic submissions only. I saw your advice on clips on the JobsPage. But I'm wondering if there is a preferred format for electronic submissions. Text in an e-mail? Attachments, though they don't always translate on the receiving end?

Ready to e-mail

A: The best way to send a clip by e-mail is the way the editor wants it. Ask. If you haven't had the chance to do that, A Word attachment is generally good as most people can open those and they look nice. If you are submitting several stories, put them on one Word document so the poor editor doesn't have to open them one at a time.

Pasting the text within an e-mail will always work -- even at newspapers where people are reluctant to open attachments, which can carry viruses -- but it looks pretty plain.